TartaClubItalia

Ciao a tutti,

In Italia, which species of tortoise can you found:
-as wild species ?
-as introduced species ?

I know that Testudo hermanni hermanni is "autoctone".
I ask this question for the next tortoises because on many documents, sites or forum I read that:
- Testudo marginata is "autoctone" or introduced. You find it in Sardegna and on small Toscan islands
- Testudo graeca graeca is introduced

For Testudo hermanni boettgeri,I think that she is just introduced accidentally (specimen who escaped or released) and so she can't be considered as a current species in Italia

And finally, do you know hybridation proved events between these different species "in natura"

Thanks and have a nice day

Ciao!
L'unica autoctona italiana è Testudo hermanni hermanni; le popolazioni di marginata e graeca che si trovano ad esempio in Sardegna sono state introdotte. Non conosco casi di ibridazione in natura tra queste specie.

Hi Lacsap,
what you have supposed in my opinion is right 100%.
The only autoctone species in Italy is Testudo hermanni hermanni. The river Po marks and splits the region between thh and thb. In the north-east of Italy the wild population of thb, like at Bosco Mesola, is supposed to be hybrid thh X thb of released or escaped breeding specimen.
T. marginata comes from Greece by ancient times and lives in great quantity in Sardinia, exspecially in north-easterly coast region of the island. Few TM population are reported to live wild in Tuscan.
T. Graeca graeca in Sardinia sometimes is called T. Graeca sarda and it looks like and comes from tunisian Furchulachelys Nabeulensis.
have a nice day you too

Ciao EDG e Fulvio,

Thanks for your comments, it' s very "interessante".

I don't know for this wild population of T.h.b. living in the north-east of Italy.
I'm (very) surprised even if there are supposed hybrids, released or escaped breeding specimens.
Do you know how many specimens count this population

A last question: when you speak about the supposed hybridation between T.h.h. X T.h.b., do you include a possible hybridation between hermanni and hercegovinensis too or this is just with boettgeri ?

Sorry to ask many questions but the french or belgian forums speak rarely about italians tortoises. The good and interessant informations are difficult to find.

In french, we say "la curiosité est un vilain défaut" approximately in italian "la curiosità è un predefinito gravi" ... mille scusi ancora

"La curiosita' e' un cattivo difetto"?????(mi sa che calza meglio ma non so) :non sempre!!!!
tante domande precise e molto interessanti!questo stimola la crescita di un forum!!
riguardo le ibridazioni credo intendesse thh x thb,non hercegovinensis!non sono cosi' diffuse!

Hi Lacsap,
take a look at this links about Mesola wood in north-est of Italy: http://www.ildeltadelpo.it/parco_del_de ... stre_e.htm and http://www.parks.it/parco.delta.po.er/p ... Pgran.html
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testudo_hermanni (in italian)
For sure T. Hermanni is very copious in that wood. Until few years ago anybody (or few experts) knew about th hergecovinensis and all the specimens from east europe were supposed to be th boettgeri. So it's very possible that Mesola wood's tortoises are a genetic "combination" of thhermanni, thhercegovinensis and thboettgeri.
On wikipedia is reported that many specimen from Mesola wood show peculiar features tipical of th hercegovinens and recent genetics studies support povenace from Dalmatia.

Ciao,

Thank you for all these precisions ... and a big "thank" for the links Fulvio.

I have already read the first and I'm very surprised by the diversity of the flore and the terrestrial fauna in this region of Italy.

You have really a beautiful and surprising country for many things

Ciao,

Since you talk me about this population from Bosco Mesola, I have made some research about this tortoises during the last two weeks ... but I have not many results .
I'm very intrigued by this and so I have again few questions :
- since when this population is recognized ?
- where is it possible to see some pictures on the net (site or forum) ?
- actually, do the scientifics consider this population as clearly established ? Is it possible to find some "esemplare" of T.h.h. unmixed (no hybrid)
- Do you know a site where these studies, which you speak below, can be seen ?

Fulvio ha scritto:...
On wikipedia is reported that many specimen from Mesola wood show peculiar features tipical of th hercegovinens and recent genetics studies support povenace from Dalmatia.

In this moment, in Belgium, our tortoises sleep outside with protection if necessary ...
After, a picture of a baby 2009 who tryed to bury ... but above a juvenile of 2006. The little comic of the year ...



I thank you for your disponibily and see you soon

this is an article that speaks about the populations of Mesola

Ciao suelo,

Thanks for this article ... I try to read it with a translator

Thank again.